Thoughts on V6 Vivid vs Classic dual op-amps…
thoughts/opinions are my own and should be taken as so
I thought I’d share some of my thoughts between these two op-amps paired with the Soloist as I was really curious of the differences between the two. Although there were already some impressions out there, I had to satisfy my curiosity and try it for myself. Hope this’ll be helpful to you Soloist owners…
1st listen: It’s like someone threw a wooly blanket over my head…sounded muffled, slow, and stuffy—thicc sound
After this, I told myself I would need to spend more time so I can acclimate from the Vivids. So, I left the Classics in exclusively until I could understand it. It’d be pointless to switch back and forth anyway since the Soloist does take some warm-up time, so keep that in mind. I’m pretty familiar with the Vivids as that’s what I’ve been listening to everyday.
I actually came across this description on Burson’s website about the differences between the two op-amps and I thought they were pretty similar to what I found overall, so I’ll copy/paste this below.
[“The V6 Vivid is dynamic, transparent and exciting. It is the V5 sound improved on all aspects. From its incredible dynamic range, three-dimensional soundstage to its ability to reproduce the finest micro details. It invites you to witness that moment of recording. Play Norah Jones’ Come Away with Me, and suddenly you are in the best seat in the house. Norah and her handsome band materialize vividly on stage and you are immersed in magic.
The V6 Classic deviates further from its V5 foundation. With an entirely different output stage design, it is intimate, exquisite and very engaging. With the V6 Classic, Norah is asking you to come closer. She wrote the song for you and she is singing it to you. It was time to stop analyzing and start living in the moment.”][//www.bursonaudio.com/products/supreme-sound-opamp-v6/]
I did not use the track Come Away with Me as a test track…
Gear: RME ADI-2 DAC, Burson Soloist [all balanced]
Few tracks used [primarily J-pop vocal-heavy tracks, soundtracks]:
Streaming done on Tidal via Audirvana
Masshiro From THE FIRST TAKE - yama available for streaming
My Caffeine - Faith Richards available for streaming
Bass & Drum Intro - Nils Lofgren Band available for streaming
Gurenge From THE FIRST TAKE - LiSA available for streaming
Kaikai Kitan - Eve purchase
Avid - SawanoHiroyuki[nZk]: mizuki available for streaming
DEKIGOKORO - Kana Shibue purchase
Now let me share some of my brief thoughts with how the Classics played with the headphones/speaker I use…
Focal Clear
Vivids: Transparent and clear. Enhances its already dynamic nature. Very engaging and great synergy.
Classics: Gives an overall warmth. Slight bass boost and fills in lower mids a little. Upper treble is smoothed over but lower treble is slightly pronounced. Less engaging and makes the Clear a sit-back-and-relax headphone.
Preference: Vivids [if I didn’t own the Aeolus then it would be a TIE and it would just depend on my mood, but most of the time the Vivids]
*If you only have the Clears as your main headphone, I think getting the Classics serve as a nice alternative presentation for those times you want something different.
Focal Shape 50
RME pre-amp: Harsh and very closed-in. Too hot to handle!
Vivids: Super transparent, detailed, and fast. Treble is raw but not harsh. Soundstage is huge and deep. Bass is exceptionally tight and defined. Very engaging.
Classics: Slower and upper treble is further tamed. With the monitors, the emphasis in the lower treble is much more prominent causing slight sibilance. Less engaging and very intimate. Bass is rounded a bit like a rubber mallet instead of a
Preference: Vivids [I do like the bit of color and texture the Classics provide, but not at the sacrifice of speed, soundstage, and that slight sibilance. So, I prefer some qualities of the Classics but overall the Vivids take it here for me]
Random rant: Kind of sucks that there are barely any audiophile powered speakers good for nearfield that aren’t monitors and that have XLR inputs…only one I’ve seen based on research is the Buchardt A500 which is
ZMF Aeolus w/ perf suede universe
Vivids: Sparkly treble, luscious mids, punchy mid-bass. Great synergy and addicting sound.
Classics: Nope. It’s not bad don’t get me wrong, but the synergy between the Aeolus and the Vivids is just that much better. Sounds lifeless compared to Vivids. In other words, darker overall and too laid-back; very slow and lethargic/unexciting.
Preference: Vivids all the way!
Senn HD6XX
Vivids: Dynamic, lively, and engaging. Brilliant highs, neutral mids w/ a tinge of tonal warmth, and punchy bass. Fantastic synergy and makes these sing!
Classics: Punchier, laid-back, and smoother. Slight edge on lower treble still present.
Preference: Vivids [I didn’t think I’d like the Classics with this at first but I was wrong…same situation as with the Clear, so it’s really a TIE and depending on mood/preference]
ZMF VC w/ non-perf lambskin auteur
Vivids: Very lively, dynamic, engaging. Nice and wide staging. Can sometimes come off as slightly sharp and shouty [I don’t think this is coming from the Soloist but the RME]. Great synergy and a very pleasurable listen.
Classics: Intimate with slight bass boost. Lower treble emphasis is more prominent since the VC is already a sparkly and energetic headphone, thus coming across as slightly harsh. Something is missing and I can’t quite describe it; I’m usually smiling a lot when listening to the VC…I’m not smiling here.
Preference: Vivids…yeah, definitely [some 🪄 magic lost w/ the Classics]
Closing thoughts
If you can’t already tell I prefer the Vivids with mostly everything, but that’s because my preferences align more with its qualities. In contrast, the Classics sound smoother, bassier, thicker, intimate, laid-back, slower, and less engaging that I doubt it will result in any fatigue. However, the lower treble emphasis does seem to cause some sibilance and edginess so keep that in mind. That being said, I don’t think the Vivids are definitively better but instead gives a different presentation of the music. The Vivids bring everything into focus while the Classics focus on whomever or whatever is the star of the show—the Vivids equal an engaging presentation, while the Classics equal a laid-back presentation overall—and I can definitely see why Burson shipped the Soloists with the Vivids as default. In addition, I do think that a wider selection of headphones will synergize better with the Vivids; they shine the most!
Should you buy it?
I think the Classics serve as a nice contrast to the Vivids and I can totally see why someone would prefer the former over the latter. To that person, I’d say go for it! You can get an entirely different presentation with a simple op-amp roll. That being said, if you own multiple headphones with differing flavors I don’t think you should get the Classics and should stay with the Vivids. But if you have one, maybe two headphones that already have a very detailed and engaging sound signature, getting the Classics could be a worthwhile choice as an alternative to getting a different headphone entirely. In retrospect, it can save you some money if you already own the Soloist!
Happy Listening…
Page 2
Official AMP/DAC/DAP Model Discussion
I can’t feel any screws, so I think they must be stuck on. The feet are about an inch from the edges, and are about 5 inches apart from each other.
Is it weird that I have a tape measure permanently on my desk?
4 Likes
thanks for that. I keep a tape measure handy too.
I could always slip some Herbie’s Tenderfeet underneath too…
1 Like
Yeah, I think they’re stick-on too. You could also orient it vertically with the “cool stand” if you didn’t know [although the screen orientation won’t change].
Is it weird that I have a tape measure permanently on my desk?
Nah, gotta measure how each new amp will fit on the desk right?
3 Likes
I’m studying it. My A20 is a little light on horsepower. 170ma.
I can probably fit it. I wont orient it vertically. It fits horizontally, but will have to sit over the edge of the shelf. Some Herbies Tenderfeet or IsoAcoustics OREA should be a good workaround.
Thank you for checking.
3 Likes
Hi guys, just a quick cautionary note on the Soloist.
I picked one up last weekend to use with my Susvara, and was comparing it directly to the GS-X Mini. I had a strange episode upon first using the amp - it initially produced a static hiss that rose louder and louder until I actually disconnected my headphones out of concern. When tentatively checking again after it had been powered on for a while I found that it was completely silent. I wrote it off as being something to do with the amp never having been used before and used it as normal, encountering no issues.
My first impression was that the GS-X sounded more dynamic, more engaging, a little wider and a bit more holographic. I instantly thought the Soloist sounded slightly flatter, and that’s factoring in my bias towards a shiny new toy. I wanted it to sound better, but it didn’t. I thought the best thing to do would be to spend some proper time with it before making my mind up, so I resolved to use it as my go-to amp for a couple of weeks.
Then came a few days away from home. I got back today, and fired up my system and the Soloist - it’s worth noting that the Susvara was plugged into the amp at the moment of me switching it on. I’m not in the habit of disconnecting my headphones from any amps I’ve used upon shutting them down, and I frequently leave things connected and ready for future use. If this makes me a moron, what happened next is just my fault. However, I suspect that many of us probably leave our headphones plugged in, switch off an amp, switch it back on again the next day etc. Also worth noting that my Soloist [which was bought new from a UK dealer] shipped without a manual. I used it as I’d use any other amp.
I switched on the amp and heard a popping sound from the headphones - they weren’t on my head at the time. I wouldn’t say it was a particularly loud pop, but I had a bad feeling straight away and threw them on to check that everything was OK. To my horror, upon trying to listen to anything with the headphones, I found that one of the drivers was dead. So I’m now going to have to send my Susvara back to the manufacturer to get the driver fixed/replaced - they’re under warranty and only a few weeks old, so hopefully it’ll go smoothly for me.
So yeah, don’t leave your headphones connected to this amp.
10 Likes
Dang, sorry to hear all that but that’s good it’ll be solved rather smoothly!
If this makes me a moron, what happened next is just my fault.
Nah, Burson recommends turning off the amp before disconnecting/hot-swapping anything.
Also worth noting that my Soloist [which was bought new from a UK dealer] shipped without a manual.
I believe all Burson products don’t have a physical manual; it’s all on their website digitally.
I switched on the amp and heard a popping sound from the headphones - they weren’t on my head at the time. I wouldn’t say it was a particularly loud pop, but I had a bad feeling straight away and threw them on to check that everything was OK.
For the popping sounds, I asked Burson long ago if it was safe for the headphones. They assured me that the popping noise is normal and is within safe range. So, it sounds like you might have a faulty op-amp… @Tom_Ato had the same problem when he plugged in his Focal Clear. Your best bet is to email Burson and tell them what happened. They’ll help you troubleshoot and if need be send you a new op-amp [if that’s the issue].
6 Likes
Thanks for reply. Personally, I’m now terrified of this amp. I just tried another pair of headphones. Pop followed by slowly escalating static followed by another pop and eerie silence. I thought for a second I’d broken a second set of headphones.
You’re probably right about it being an op-amp issue, but the fact that other people have had the same sort of problem is disconcerting - a problem that if present can damage your equipment if you don’t read the manual on the website [does everyone do that? I rarely do that].
Add to that the fact that it just fried my Susvaras… I know a lot of people like this amp, but I think I’m out.
I don’t mean to sound too negative about it, but this is my personal experience as a guy who is into this stuff, so I just want to let other people know that as this happened to me, there’s probably a very small chance that it could maybe possibly happen to you too.
7 Likes
I switched on the amp and heard a popping sound from the headphones - they weren’t on my head at the time.
Sorry to hear man, crap like this is why I always turn volume to zero and unplug before turning off, same when turning on. I’ve heard pops like that with headphones on. Scared the shit out of me.
Never again.
Hope nothing is damaged further, and that the Sus will be covered.
7 Likes
Thanks dude, yeah, you’re more sensible than me. I didn’t realise this was a risk. I’ll disconnect my headphones from my amps in future.
4 Likes
I just tried another pair of headphones. Pop followed by slowly escalating static followed by another pop and eerie silence.
Yikes, yeah it sounds like a faulty amp to me!
I know a lot of people like this amp, but it just murdered my Susvaras, so I think I’m out. Once bitten, twice shy.
That is unfortunate, but I totally understand. To be honest, whenever I swapped op-amps I make sure to plug in a 6XX just in case I messed something up. lol
I don’t mean to sound too negative about it
Nah, thanks for sharing that! Even though it might be a small, isolated incident it’s good to know about it.
this is why I always turn volume to zero and unplug before turning off, same when turning on
Isn’t it safer to plug when off and unplug after turning it off? Well, I guess it depends on how the amp was designed…
4 Likes
Isn’t safer to plug when off and unplug after turning it off? Well, I guess it depends on how the amp was designed…
I don’t know, would rather have no pops or loud noises occur when amp is powering off. Heard it too many times to be a bit paranoid, if the amp takes the hit that’s fine for now. Better than a blown driver.
4 Likes
I usually unplug headphones from anything with a tube in it before power on/off. I don’t need in-rush at power on, or caps slowly draining at power off messing with my cans.
But… A solid state amp having this issue is extremely disconcerting. This is why Schiit has muting relays on Mjolnir, Rag, Jot, etc. Why doesn’t Burson?
8 Likes
So, it sounds like you might have a faulty op-amp… @Tom_Ato had the same problem when he plugged in his Focal Clear.
In my experience with socketed electronics – ranging from 1980s PCs to Android devices with flash RAM in the last few years – anything in a swappable socket is less reliable than not-for-routine-swapping socket or permanent soldering. Even in the best implementations with the highest quality parts suffer. The 1990s Pentium III on a rectangular daughter board were ridiculously unreliable and inconsistent.
I personally turn the volume down on any amp when I’m done using it, but don’t turn them off. If I come back in 15 minutes or 5 hours, it’s easy to ramp up the volume once you hit Play. This has worked fine, and caused no damage. I also limit power cycling with tube amps to once per day, or once per tube if more tubes are used in one day [with a full cool down between].
EDIT: One of the main reasons why I use overpriced walled-garden Apple products is that they don’t have swappable RAM. I want that.
Personally, I’m now terrified of this amp.
This pattern of issues puts me off Burson for sure. I’d been looking seriously at the Funk as a dual purpose headphone/near-field amp. That’s on hold now.
2 Likes
How much of an issue is it with Burson? I feel like I see more raves than issues.
If you ask me, I don’t think these “issues” should cause worry. Concern, yes…
Let’s run a list of these “issues” that I can gather since following this thread:
- volume jumping [looking at it from the buyer’s perspective sure it could cause worry…when you actually have it on hand, it hardly affects regular use plus it’s an easy fix IF you are affected]
- unlabeled L/R markings [totally stupid; no idea why it isn’t labeled but once you figure out the right orientation you’re good]
- insensitive remote [I haven’t had issues with mine…in addition, for this kind of product, I see an included remote as an extra feature rather than a necessity]
- missing volume knob [this…someone just messed up I guess; I heard of one case]
- headphone destroyer [likely faulty op-amp; it really is unfortunate for those people who have experienced this, but looking at the bigger picture I’ve heard of 3 cases this has happened]
I don’t think I’m missing anything else. If I did feel free to add it.
I’ve laid down all what I have observed through this thread. Keep in mind that this tiny sample of people is not indicative of the overall picture of every Soloist owner.
The only “issue” I encountered was with the volume jumping [fixed], unlabeled L/R markings, and dented front plate [it was my fault]. I’ve experienced no other issues thus far and my overall impression is still positive. If it changes, then I’ll probably be running to post it on this thread or have passed on to another amp.
If this is enough for you not to invest in any Burson product then so be it - nothing wrong with that. As a consumer I get it, but imo I do think it is a bit overblown.
3 Likes
Thanks for sharing your impressions. Sorry to hear about your Susvara, I hope they get repaired quickly!
2 Likes
headphone destroyer [likely faulty op-amp; it really is unfortunate for those people who have experienced this, but looking at the bigger picture I’ve heard of 3 cases this has happened]
That’s the big one. Having 3 sets of headphones destroyed with bad op-amps suggests there could be deeper issues with Burson’s op-amps.
I’m also wondering if their flagship power supply technology involves previously undetected or considered risks. From their website:
In 2017, we had a breakthrough in power supply research. It led to the development of our proprietary Max Current Power Supply [MCPS]. Superior to both transformer-based and conventional switching power supply designs, the MCPS is featured in all Burson products, winning awards and leaving competitors in the dust."
[Source]
…
The Burson Max Current Power Supply [MCPS] resolves this problem by removing the power transformer altogether. It uses transistors and as such it has less than 1 ohm of resistance. It means delivering electric current instantly to met any demand. The resulting music reproduction is detailed and dynamic, the way music should be.
In the “old days” size really matters. Audiophiles and manufacturers everywhere like to show off the size and weight of their equipment. A big transformer and an even bigger array of capacitor formation was a reassuring sign of performance.
By removing the power transformer, the Burson MCPS is more responsive and quiet. Its improved efficiency also removed the need for big capacitors. As such, it gives us an opportunity to squeeze top-level performance and functionality into products that are elegant and practical in everyday homes.
The Burson MCPS starts a new chapter in audio engineering where style and performance co-exists.
[Source]
4 Likes
I guess that is pretty much what I am asking. I ordered a soloist during the FY21 sale and have no intention of cancelling the order. But, I was curious as to issues and the headphone destroyer part of all this is worrying. It does stink to have anyone go through that, but the percentage sees low overall. I am not sure how many soloists they have sold, but the amount of heard failures is pretty small.
The missing knob is funny, but I have had similar experiences with other companies.
I did run across this on YT when I was watching review videos: //youtu.be/qxugUUOl7eI
1 Like
headphone destroyer [likely faulty op-amp; it really is unfortunate for those people who have experienced this, but looking at the bigger picture I’ve heard of 3 cases this has happened]
There are 34 posters in this thread [excepting me]. Most of them are not owners of the amps in question, but let’s assume they ALL are. Two of those posters have had a Burson amplifier destroy their headphones.
That’d be 1 in 17 cases of headphone destroying issues.
That could be an outlier, and it may not remain at the same ratio as you increased the number of users, but it’s a pretty sobering perspective. Without more data I personally would be erring on the side of caution and not plugging any of my headphones into a Burson amplifier [much less buying one] until it was apparent what is really going on and how widespread it is. And that’s using the more favorable ratio that assumes everyone in the thread has one of these amps. If you used the actual number, it’s 3-4x worse.
I’d be much less concerned if it was 2-3 reports spread across hundreds of posters on multiple forums, but this is just going from the very small group here.
Then there’s another cause for concern.
The recommended practice [where there is one] with most amplifiers is that you disconnect your headphones before power off, and connect them after power-on. But apparently Burson told @Tom_Ato that:
“We recommend unplugging the headphones after powering off. Plugin the headphones before powering on. We never recommend hot plugging headphones while the machine is on.”
So for whatever reason, maybe lack of shorting protection [also an issue with the 1/4" TRS socket on the Phonitor X/Xe, so wouldn’t be unique to Burson], Burson don’t want you doing that most people deem normal practice to protect their headphones.
Not good.
8 Likes
Without more data I personally would be erring on the side of caution and not plugging any of my headphones into a Burson amplifier [much less buying one] until it was apparent what is really going on and how widespread it is.
I guess the best way is to ask Burson directly so that they’re aware of this issue [if they’re not already]. I’ll try my luck with that and see what they say.
The recommended practice [where there is one] with most amplifiers is that you disconnect your headphones before power off, and connect them after power-on.
Does it work the same way as with balanced connections?
1 Like
← previous page next page →